Experience vs. Pay vs. Need Experience to GET paid!

[KevinB]

So, from what I've read throughout, and of course what makes sense, is that in order to get hired you need experience... but the only way to get experience is to get hired.

My question: How bad is it to take on an unpaid spot in order to gain some experience?

I, of course, am brand-spankin' new here and to the VO industry. Still looking at coaching, learning, etc. But we have a small (REALLY small) local radio station that I kind of have an "in" with. Of course, they have no budget for outside help, but would love to HAVE outside help. So is it against the "code" to pursue a few local spots just to get my voice out there (when the time is right, of course)?

My thoughts on this: exposure and material. If it works out and the manager likes what he hears, then he has me in his pocket the next time he gets a new account, plus he'd have some material to show a potential client. And for my own purposes, it could give me some raw material to work with (understanding of course that this is radio work, and not an ideal studio environment).

Kind of putting the cart before the horse in a lot of ways, but I can't help looking at opportunities. Have to start somewhere, no?

Thanks,
K

[RickRileyVoice]

So is it against the "code" to pursue a few local spots just to get my voice out there (when the time is right, of course)?

Kevin,


There is no' code'. Don't be intimidated by what you read here. If a local radio station will give you a shot, then go for it.

If it's good enough, your local radio station will air it. If it's not, they won't. When you get some of the fundamentals under your belt by practicing the craft, then take a step of getting some coaching and working with someone to make you better.But right now, go for the experience. It's a long road and you have to start somewhere.

Good luck!

[KevinB]

Thank you, Rick. That's very encouraging. It makes sense to me, but I didn't want my first move into VO one that would step on toes or rub anyone the wrong way. I appreciate it!
K

[Scott Pollak]

Yup, what Rick said. Everyone has to start somewhere. In radio most people start as unpaid interns. Go for whatever you can get under your belt, onto a demo reel, and on to a list of clients.

[jsgilbert]

So, from what I've read throughout, and of course what makes sense, is that in order to get hired you need experience... but the only way to get experience is to get hired.

No, you don't need experience. If I send out an audition to 15 people, ideally the gig goes to the person who did the best audition. This is about skills, understanding, interpretation and ability. In fact it may and has in the past sometimes been an individual who has no "experience" that gets the job. On the other hand, I know quite a few people who have done a number of v.o.gigs that I would probably never hire. They may have some experience, but they can't act, emote or interpret a script.

In all the years I have been doing this, I have never looked at a prospective talent's resume and I have only been asked for mine twice regarding v.o. gigs.

On the other hand, as someone who hires talent, if I could get an actor to work for me for free, why would I ever pay them? If I suddenly got budgets to pay actors, wouldn't I want to work with professional actors in an effort to get as much for my money as I possibly could?

I'm just presenting a different viewpoint. If it makes sense, please consider it.

[Mike Sommer]

+1 JS

Everyone needs to start someplace that's what's working in the trenches is all about. I know a few people that do scratch tracks, there's non if little pay, and it helps producers get timing down (these folks generally perform some other duty for the agency or production house). Some of the best way to get practices is to join some the on line groups that produce radios dramas and the like. Start a workout group in your area,

But don't let them take advantage of you, and be cautious of taking payed work from another Talent.

Just an FYI, Inters are generally students and are getting school credit, that is there compensation for there services.

[KevinB]

js - It absolutely makes sense. In re-reading my post, I'm not sure I necessarily meant padding a resume so much as the physical experience, but you make very valid points. Even in my current line of work (I work in 9-1-1), when a new trainee comes into the room you often times get a sense (be it good or bad) of their true ability to do the job. Much as so many here have made the comment that decisions are often made about a VO talent in under ten seconds, so can a seasoned dispatcher tell if the new person will run screaming from the room during times of great stress (yes, it happens). And much like you point out, experience has little to do with it. I've had people brand new off the street who honest to goodness asked if we answered 9-1-1 for the whole country end up being the best darn dispatchers you've ever seen, while ten year veterans of other agencies washed out. A little off topic, but you get the point.

In regards to budget/hires, I do agree for the most part. In the case of the radio station above, they do not pay out of pocket for their talent, it is the advertiser that pays for the talent, spot, production, etc, and right now they are pretty much running off existing contracts and material. It's literally a small mom & pop operation (he's the talent, she runs the office) that doesn't have the power to transmit to the next major city less than 20 miles south. So in this case, which very well may be an isolated case, I can see the merit of taking on some volunteer work. I however would be very cautious in taking such an offer from a larger station, say the one other in our area, who actually has an active sales and advertising department. (This station will be included in phase II of my evil plan to conquer North Georgia!)

I REALLY appreciate your thoughts here, thank you!

K

[Scott Pollak]

I think both sides of this coin are valid.

Not too many people are gifted enough or lucky enough to come right out of the chute ready to voice something large for pay. Local, $50-a-pop spots? Yeah, maybe. But not the good stuff.

Don't we tell people here over and over again to go get voice coaching and some acting chops? Why? Because they need training and experience. I think we'd all agree that it's going to be a minuscule negligible few who can get any meaningful v/o work without putting in the time and work getting coaching and training, right? Part of that 'training' involves practice, right? Where do we get it? Sure we can sit in front of our laptops reading copy gotten from the net, and magazine articles and so on, but real-world hands-on, whether paid or not, is at least equally as valuable. Submitting our work to others, even if it's for a local dry cleaners' ad, provides us practice, feedback and a sense of accomplishment.

So I agree with J.S.'s points here, but again, feel there is more than just one part to this equation.

[jsgilbert]

Perhaps I should step back and talk about how I interpreted the word "experience" as it was posed in the original post. It seemed the desire to work for free in order to gain some "experience" actually recording something that would be aired on the radio.

I thought that this particular experience could and should be skipped. I can't speak directly for this particular low power station, but I tend to think that as experience or training, this might not be very valuable and could in many cases cause one to develop some poor habits. My apologies, but this has generally not proved to be the breeding ground for the best and the brightest. This is completely as an aside to the morals of working for free.

Getting heavily involved in improvisational acting and traditional acting studies usually fosters the kinds of skills that would give a person a better fighting chance of doing well in voice over.

My personal experiences in working with and knowing numerous actors who are working well above the curve in terms of commercial broadcast and characterization (animation or video games), is that their backgrounds tend to have high amounts of improv and standard acting training and very little individual voice classes or one-on-one coaching. Although with regard to the latter, many have had what could perhaps be referred to as a mentor or mentors.

I personally believe that hanging out at a professional recording studio and simply watching recording sessions will build a better set of "experiences" than many other things. Offer to clean, file papers or anything else that could be of help and see what happens.

One thing I will say is there aren't a ton of exculsively right or wrong answers. Everything seems to be changing, perhaps except for the way that we think.

I mentioned in several posts a project that had its funding pulled, designed to examine the way that voice over was being taught in an attempt to create best practices for integrating v.o. studies into degree programs, such as Dram and Communications.

We examined a typical scenario that features a 3 hour class held one night per week for 4 weeks, with a typical attendance of 10 people. Given a minimum of 2 hours being spent on basic discussion, introductions, etc. This left a total of 10 hours of potential microphone time for 10 actors. Divided by 4 nights, this would be a maximum of 15 minutes on microphone time per student per evening.

In fact, when one then considers break times, actual discussions of the instructor, we saw that the amount of time per night per student was less than 10 minutes. Additionally, owing to the way the brain functions, there was a greater take-away by students of the actual performances of other students than the direction or instruction given by the teacher.

Classes that tended to be more immersive and/or were built around improvisation tended to be far more effective, especially given the time of the class being 6pm - 9pm on average.

We found other issues with the way v.o.is/ was being taught, which I hope to someday be able to publish, with some sort of evidentiary information.

One needs to be very "creative" when it comes to figuring out some sort of plan to try and make it in v.o. There really are few straight lines.

[RickRileyVoice]

I come from a radio background. And a radio station can offer a great many benefitsfor offering experience in VO.

With Production Room / Studio time, you have an opportunity to get comfortable behind a mic. You have the opportunity to experiment. You have to opportunity to listen to those who are doing National work because it comes in to the radio station to be aired. You can experiment with emulating, acting, hard delivery, soft delivery, comparing how you are sounding doing the same copy that some of the best in the business are doing. And you can do it for hours and hours and hours.

Many times the radio station doors closed, one guy was on the air and the production room was free for as long as I wanted to be there.Two, three, four in the morning was often my departing time.

Because I'm from L.A., surrounded by Major Market radio stations, I didn't have the opportunity that Kevin does. I had to pay someone a good bit of money for not very good instruction and a lot less studio time than had I had the opportunity to avail myself of a small town radio station. By that small town station utilizing Kevin's services for 'free', Kevin is utilizing their facility for 'free'. Barter can be a great way to do business and isoften a 'Win Win' for both parties and everybody is being 'paid'.

You don't have to take classes to learn to act. You don't have to do it with other people. There are plenty of resources one can avail themselves of, especially these days, to practice the craft of VO on your own. You just have to do it, and do it until you get good. Your ears and the rest of the world will tell you when that happens.

In Seattle, I lived across the street from a guy by the name of Sam Williams. Sam was a strange guy. He went into his room at the beginningof one summer and didn't come out all summer long. When he DID emerge, he was one of the best jugglers anyone had ever seen. He went on to become one of The Flying Karamazov Brothers. He didn't take a class, he didn't have a coach. He knew what he wanted to do and immersed himself in it for an extended period o ftime. And if you've ever seen him perform, you know that he had a lot of fun doing it.

As JS pointed out, there are a lot of paths to take and trading one's time for the opportunity of experience can certainly be the beginning of one of them.