Setting up a sound chain for the first time.

[swdstmkr]

Please be patient with the format of this post. I am having difficulty posting anything that starts a new line, so i'm going to type as though it is all on one line.
Salutations!
I am new to voice acting (actually, I wouldn't even call myself a voice actor yet), and I am wanting to set up my sound chain so that I can have a better idea of what I really sound like as I practice. I have loads more training to do as well as future improvements to recording space, so it would be best for me if I could set this up as economically as possilbe. also, since I can't afford to 'spend money twice', then I would like for whatever equipment I buy to be of sufficient quality so that I can use it when I kick-off my business plan next year (or until i can afford to upgrade).

I am on a PC using windows XP that has a SoundMAX card (???) and will be using Audacity for a while.

So far I have an AT2020 condenser.

For a preamp I'm considering a dbx286a. If I get it, then what would follow for a converter?

I've also read that the M-Audio FastTrack Pro is a good interface. Is the USB connection sufficient or should I look for something with a firewire connection?

Is the Centrance MicPort enough to do quality work with? Seems a bit pricey as a converter, and I can't imagine the preamp being as good as the dbx.

Finally, what about just getting an inexpensive Behringer mixer (I know, mackie is better) and using the preamps there? It would still need some kind of converter, but I've heard of people doing this and having success.

So, what are your thoughts? Also, would you use Guitar Center, or go online with Zzounds or Sweetwater?

[swdstmkr]

Sorry that I couldn't include this in the original post (been having some computer troubles).

What do you think about buying used locally from Craig's List?

Thank you for your time and consideration,

Scott Lyle

[Mike Sommer]

Your right in suspecting that the pres in M-Audio are not that great. They will get the job done, but nothing
special here.

The dbx is a good little pre and will work for most.

I suggest getting a sound card, or if you have Firewire, an out board interface like the Echo AudioFire 2.

You can go with a mixer that has an interface built in, Allen and Heath ZED is a very nice pre for that.


As for Craigslist, I've bought a few computers through this site and they have always been excellent deals.
Just ask lots of questions, take it for a test drive, ask more questions, and never be desperate to buy.

[Jacoby]

Finally, what about just getting an inexpensive Behringer mixer (I know, mackie is better) and using the preamps there?

I too started out with a cheapo Behringer mini console as my mic pre, using a AKG 414P48. It sounded like utter crap.

The only time a Behringer console pre has worked for me was the time I tried to pair an SM7B with a quality preamp (a Joemeek VC1Q), only to learn that the SM7B needs a helluva lotta gain... the Joemeek couldn't deliver without getting too noisy, but the pre's in my old Behringer console could (it was still noisy but not as much).

I strongly suggest youu try something better.

[swdstmkr]

Thank you both for your expert opinions. I am continually impressed by the level of sharing you professionals continually give.

To make sure that I understand what y'all are saying:

Behringer will not serve me well later on, and I should just forget about it. Easy enough.

Your right in suspecting that the pres in M-Audio are not that great.... if you have Firewire, an out board interface like the Echo AudioFire 2.

Are you saying that the Echo AudioFire 2 is a better interface than the M-Audio FastTrack Pro? Or am I comparing apples to oranges there? And are you saying, sir, that if I use the Echo, then I won't need to change my sound card and just run into the firewire card on the computer?
Also, could either of you explain the benefits of using a mixer as compared to using just a preamp/interface? I'm guessing that it has something to do with using other equipment (monitors and headphones that I won't be getting for a little while). The A&H Zed 10 looks really nice, btw, but a little $$$ for me. I guess that if it was the only equipment I needed to buy to get the mic to the computer, then it wouldn't be too much more.

Also, locally I found a Symetrix 528E on Craig's List for $250 that doesn't show much wear in the pictures. There is also a used JoeMeek British Channel VC6Q available for $150. What do you think of these (I've read the Symetrix is pretty good, but I don't know anything about the JoeMeek.)?
What kind of specific information would you want to have before deciding to make the purchase?

So lastly, Guitar Center or online purchase for new equipment?

Thank you again for your valuable answers (seriously, I'm not trying to 'suck-up'. It really is awesome to me how much time you all invest even with a nOObody like me.).

[Jacoby]

To make sure that I understand what y'all are saying:

Behringer will not serve me well later on, and I should just forget about it. Easy enough.

Heh, well.... the mini Behringer console I refered to actually still serves me, but simply as a headphone amp in my booth :-)
And my main console is also a Behringer, a really old MX2804. Only, I don't use the pre's in it for VO work.

Also, locally I found a Symetrix 528E on Craig's List for $250 that doesn't show much wear in the pictures. There is also a used JoeMeek British Channel VC6Q available for $150. What do you think of these (I've read the Symetrix is pretty good, but I don't know anything about the JoeMeek.)?

The Symetrix was an awesome preamp in it's days, and probably still is... haven't tried one myself.
The Joemeek VC6Q should sound quite similar to my VC1Q. It's not a squeky-clean pre (it has a certain "flavour" or "color" to the sound, that suits certain microphones great, others bad. No way of telling how it will work with the AT2020.

I'll hand you over to Mike regarding the "using a mixer vs. a pre vs. an interface. I'm in Scandinavia and here it's like 3.30 am now :-)

[PaulMc]

Hey Scott, can you give a rough order of magnitude budget that you are likely to have? as there are so many choices and so much subjectivity in audio recording.

Paul

ps A used Echo Layla 24/96 can be found on Ebay for less than $200 these have great AD converters on board

echo layla 24 24/96 interface - eBay (item 270568947893 end time May-01-10 11:59:36 PDT)

[Mike Sommer]

Are you saying that the Echo AudioFire 2 is a better interface than the M-Audio FastTrack Pro? Or am I comparing apples to oranges there?

It's a better unit. All Echo does is make interfaces, and that's all they ever done.

And are you saying, sir, that if I use the Echo, then I won't need to change my sound card and just run into the firewire card on the computer?

Yes. Or you can upgrade your sound card.

Also, could either of you explain the benefits of using a mixer as compared to using just a preamp/interface? I'm guessing that it has something to do with using other equipment (monitors and headphones that I won't be getting for a little while).

Your guess is correct, it's all about functionality and control. For instance I use a Soundcraft mixer which has very nice pres and british EQ's. With that in consideration, I prefer preamps with more color so I lean toward vintage pres and compressors, but if need be I could get by with the boards pres if my outboard pres fail. Over all I like the sound of the mixer and what it brings to my audio.

I can also use the mixer to bring in audio from other sources, or control studio monitors, phone patch, ISDN or whatever I need to do.

With a preamp like the DBX 286A, Symetrix 528E, JoeMeek British Channel VC6Q or let's say a Avalon 737, what you have with this these types of units is essentially a rack mountable channel strip (single input channel of a mixer). So if you don't need all the functionality of a mixer at the moment, these kinds of preamps are just what the doctor ordered-- plus you'll need an interface to get it into the computer.

Even a preamps like the Golden Age Pre 73, Vintech 1272 or Art Pro, can be operated with just an interface.

So as long as you have good clean audio going into the computer, you can make all your adjustment with the DAW.

The A&H Zed 10 looks really nice, btw, but a little $$$ for me. I guess that if it was the only equipment I needed to buy to get the mic to the computer, then it wouldn't be too much more.

If your just starting out, get only what you need to get you up and running. As you advance and gather a deeper understanding of audio chains and what they can do for you, you'll inevitably want to upgrade and improve your sound. So as long as you buy good quality equipment, you can sell it at or get most of your purchase price back on resale. I can honestly say that most of my equipment is worth more now used, then it was when I bought it.

Also, locally I found a Symetrix 528E on Craig's List for $250 that doesn't show much wear in the pictures. There is also a used JoeMeek British Channel VC6Q available for $150. What do you think of these (I've read the Symetrix is pretty good, but I don't know anything about the JoeMeek.)?
What kind of specific information would you want to have before deciding to make the purchase?

You can do very well with either preamp. The Symetrix 528E is selling for around $300 on evilbay, and the JoeMeek British Channel VC6Q sells new for about $500.

Questions to ask. How long have they had it; did they buy it new or used; do they have the paperwork for it (this tells me a few things about the user if they don't and they purchased it new) --ask these questions over the phone and in person, if the answers vary much, look out. Fire it up; listen for hum coming from the box, if you can use headphones listen for line hum; give it a test drive with some copy; plug in your own mic if you have it with you. Fiddle with all the knobs and buttons; make sure there are no crackles or pops, and that everything works.

And don't be afraid to haggle.

So lastly, Guitar Center or online purchase for new equipment?

Sure, but you'll be paying premium for used equipment. Then again, you maybe getting some kind of warranty with the purchase. I've honestly have made great buys on craigslist, because there are a lot of fire-sales and folks in need of $$$ right now.

[swdstmkr]

Thanks again for your quality and thorough replies.

Heh, well.... the mini Behringer console I refered to actually still serves me, but simply as a headphone amp in my booth :-)
And my main console is also a Behringer, a really old MX2804. Only, I don't use the pre's in it for VO work.

I thought that I had read that in another thread, but I figure that Behringer gear has changed over the years :-)

The Symetrix was an awesome preamp in it's days, and probably still is... haven't tried one myself.
The Joemeek VC6Q should sound quite similar to my VC1Q. It's not a squeky-clean pre (it has a certain "flavour" or "color" to the sound, that suits certain microphones great, others bad. No way of telling how it will work with the AT2020.

I prefer preamps with more color so I lean toward vintage pres and compressors, but if need be I could get by with the boards pres if my outboard pres fail. Over all I like the sound of the mixer and what it brings to my audio.

With a preamp like the DBX 286A, Symetrix 528E, JoeMeek British Channel VC6Q or let's say a Avalon 737, what you have with this these types of units is essentially a rack mountable channel strip (single input channel of a mixer). So if you don't need all the functionality of a mixer at the moment, these kinds of preamps are just what the doctor ordered-- plus you'll need an interface to get it into the computer.

So, if you had your druthers and say $250 ish to spend on a pre, would you go with the dbx new, a used Symetrix, or the JoeMeek VC6Q with more color? I know you said that I'll need an interface following any of these in the chain, and I've seen them around $125-175 for the Echo you suggested. That being said, would you then go with the A&H Zed 10 at $399 instead of those and use it's pre's and USB connection interface to have yourself set up for later down the road for monitors, phones, etc? Sorry if I'm beating a 'dead-horse'. I just want to make sure that I'm understanding exactly what you're recommending. Thanks again.

[Mike Sommer]

So, if you had your druthers and say $250 ish to spend on a pre, would you go with the dbx new, a used Symetrix, or the JoeMeek VC6Q with more color? I know you said that I'll need an interface following any of these in the chain, and I've seen them around $125-175 for the Echo you suggested. That being said, would you then go with the A&H Zed 10 at $399 instead of those and use it's pre's and USB connection interface to have yourself set up for later down the road for monitors, phones, etc? Sorry if I'm beating a 'dead-horse'. I just want to make sure that I'm understanding exactly what you're recommending. Thanks again.

Understanding that you're just trying to work out (I saw this but was just answering questions as presented)
it might be best not to worry about getting all the hot equipment right now. Just get something that will get
you up and working. For this purpose the M-Audio FastTrack Pro is just fine. This way you can focus on
investing on classes and in the meantime you can save up for some nice equipment later down the road.


I understand that you would like to buy right the first time, so you don't have keep trading up. But unless you have deep pockets, this is about par for the corse.