Bring it on!

Mike Sommer · 06-09-2009, 01:23 PM

That practically flies in the face and contradicts everything for which being a good versatile voice actor is all about. And it's not just my opinion, it's the opinion and experience of nearly every successful voice actor in town.
Why?
Because for every script an actor gets, choices must be made (Who, What, When, Where) and the more interesting and the more layered these choices are, the better the performance will be. The Voice Actor that can bring a living breathing fully developed and dimensional character to the mic, the better the chance are of getting the gig. This would go for everything -commercials, narration, promo and trailers, and not just animation and video games.

And when speaking of voices, the more shadings, variances of voice and characters you have in your back pocket, the more valuable you are.

By typecasting yourself as one character, with one read, with one style, you have successfully left everything else open to me. Thank you.

JoeActor · 06-09-2009, 08:36 PM

I've gotta agree with Mike to some extent.

I was actually given the same advice when I started out in Los Angeles.
Fortunately, I ignored it. Had I not been so stubborn about my versatility, I would not have had the great diversity of roles thus far. And those include commercial, promo and industrials.

Each job requires a new character for me.

But back to the original advice, and why it was given...

I was basically told that the agents, casting, and producers could more easily handle me if I had a signature look/voice/style/whatever. Apparently, the thinking is that it's too complicated to be versatile right out of the gate.

From those that I've worked with, I can tell you my versatility is a major selling point. I was recently called in for a video game session. They were confident enough that I was told to just come in. When I got there, I knocked out 5 characters in quick order. Even finished in half the time allotted. The main character was one I hadn't ever done before (20's Hispanic inner city!)

Even though that was a video game, the characters must be real. Same as commercial copy.

Ok, so I'm rambling, but I believe you should never hide your light under a basket.

Adapt, Adopt, and Improve,
Joe J Thomas
www.JoeActor.com
www.SoundsGoodToYou.com

p.s. I wonder if the original poster is going to come back?

Mike Sommer · 06-09-2009, 09:35 PM

I'm not saying go hog wild with characters - it is after all a commercial demo- just demonstrate your acting ability in the most basic of terms. Show more than one dimension. Be interesting.

A good commercial demo might include:
~ Signature Voice
~ Spots with some range of emotion - Happy, Sad, Serious, Funny, Deadpan, Sympathetic or what have you.
~ A dialog spot (preferably with someone of the opposite sex then you)
~ End with your Signature Voice.

Because your Demo is you calling card, this is the best and possibly only means to audition for a potential client or agent. So it need to demonstrate your talents.

BobbyH · 06-09-2009, 11:02 PM

All great points, all very true and, Mike, we are closer than you think to being on the same page. Thank you for clearing up about not going “hog wild with characters.” That’s how I was interpreting your posts.

(I wrote the rest of this in between projects, today, and just now checked back to see the latest posts. So, if you would indulge me?)

As you know; I am not talking about character work, but signature voice work. Actors who are hired to brand a product by having such a recognizable and trusted sound (they test well with audiences) or whose voice performance perfectly emulates the producer’s idea of how the product should be represented.

(Larry, God bless him, has a wonderful signature sound and a very marketable one, at that.)

As for the signature read, basically, you should have five or six different variations on your sound. For example, no one acts the same way in different social environments. You would never act like a frat boy at black tie affair, correct? So, in essence, each different variation of your personality should be reflected on your demo. However, you need your strongest and most marketable demonstrated up front and repeated in the demo. It also needs to be reflected in your marketing. This read is your entry point into the national market and the read that will most likely carry you throughout your career. You will hopefully be “typecast” or remembered for this read.This is especially important for promo and trailer. (This was over all point I was trying to make)

Mike, those “shadings" are also in a signature read. Except with a signature read it’s your life lessons and your point of view that are the background to create that “living breathing fully developed and dimensional character.” The difference between character work and a signature voice is that you, yourself, are the character. You’re being real.

Now, a random thought:

At some point in a career a decision is made, whether knowingly or not, to remain a “handy man” voice actor; one who is adequate enough to hire and cover everyday work (local commercial, IVR, industrial, etc.) or become a master storyteller. The masters are actors who have grown into their skin and have become proficient in all the nuances and subtleties of their reads. They make a name for themselves and become a brand/celebrity. Producers hire them because of who they are or what they represent. Both are respectable paths, it’s only a difference in the setting of personal goals, comfort levels and talent. The question is: which path will you take?

Mike Sommer · 06-10-2009, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyH

The difference between character work and a signature voice is that you, yourself, are the character. You’re being real.

That would be for the most part an inaccurate statement.
Your voice is your voice, but you are ultimately or should be acting a character. In a sense Channeling the character, and the character is in essence using your instrument to speak.

For example as a Narrator of a story, you are the voice of the Author.

You make choices as an actor -who you are as a living breathing person, who you are talking to as a living breathing person, and where you are - whether if it's 2.9% APR financing, or selling Rice O Roni. You are, or at least should be in character.

Otherwise you are just reading aloud. And what fun is that?

BobbyH · 06-10-2009, 10:21 AM

That's interesting. I always thought someone hired me because of my interpretation of the script, not because I was trying to channel someone else.

So correct me if I am misinterpreting what you wrote, but, if someone hires Mike Sommer to be Mike Sommer, you're still going to try and be someone else?

BobbyH · 06-10-2009, 10:28 AM

For some reason I thought of this quote by Thomas Merton:

"“There can be an intense egoism in following everybody else. People are in a hurry to magnify themselves by imitating what is popular - and too lazy to think of anything better. Hurry ruins saints as well as artists. They want quick success and they are in such a haste to get it that they cannot take time to be true to themselves. And when the madness is upon them they argue that their very haste is a species of integrity.”"

Mike Sommer · 06-10-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyH

That's interesting. I always thought someone hired me because of my interpretation of the script, not because I was trying to channel someone else.

So correct me if I am misinterpreting what you wrote, but, if someone hires Mike Sommer to be Mike Sommer, you're still going to try and be someone else?

If that happened in the voice over world -as Harlan Hogan says- I would have reached the pinnacle of my career and heading along the down hill side, and probably wouldn't get the job anyway.

But the short answer is, Yes. Unless it was an interview or a conversation where in fact it would be unscripted.

If scripted I still need to know Who, What, When, Where- I still need to make choices as an actor. Playing oneself is the most difficult role there is, especially if you don't know what your values are.

But most laypeople don't realize "voice over" is in fact acting. And when hiring a VO they are hiring more then just the voice, they are hiring the skill sets of an actor that makes copy sound conversational, authoritative, romantic, funny, sad, carefree; or whatever the scene, script, director, or actor choices are.

BobbyH · 06-10-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Sommer

If scripted I still need to know Who, What, When, Where- I still need to make choices as an actor. Playing oneself is the most difficult role there is, especially if you don't know what your values are.

I wrote:

Quote:

"...it’s your life lessons and your point of view that are the background to create that “living breathing fully developed and dimensional character.”

If someone doesn't know who, what, when or where they were in their life...someone's got a problem.

We are saying the same things.

jsgilbert · 06-10-2009, 01:19 PM

Well, here I go again. I listened to Larry's demo and as someone who listens to many demos and makes receommendations to clients as well as runs castings, it was better than most of the ones I get. Now here's the thing. I am typing this quite literally 2 minutes after listening to it and there is nothig really memorable on it. I hear the same thing I often hear on demos in a few places and that was an emphasis on the mechanics, instead of hearing what I like to think of as an "organic process". I don't really know if this person can act or extend themselves.

Pleasant voices I got. Competant actors that I enjoy working with and unfortunately don't have enough work for, I got. At this point there has to be a wow factor somewhere. Working MOR and just putting forth a nice voice may cut it for the dollar a hollar work, although quite honestly even on the lower paying jobs I soetimes send out, there is usually a large body of actors (people who can act) who are available.

One trick pony's who have established themselves as being above the rank and file will often get work because of that "status". Often they are here today and gone tomorrow however in the wonderful world of voiceover.

John Goodman has a very signature sound and it garners him work often as the guy next door or the every man's kind of guy, but it his ability to dig deep and pull out the emotions , the depth of delivery and interpretation that makes him so good at what he does. And it's uncanny how often you probably hear his work and don't know it's him. We actually pay attention to what is being said as opposed to who is saying it.

Ultimately it comes down to one person's decision as to who gets the job and if our friend Larry here is sleeping with the v.p. broadcast creative for some large ad agency, then his demo is probably better than it needs to be. While the demo needs to be good, now more than ever, it often comes down to who you know and not what you know.

Go work in the mailroom for a gaming company or ad agency and you will inevitably have better chances for getting v.o. work than if you didn't, regardless of how good your demo is or isn't.

06-09-2009, 01:23 PM	#11 (permalink)
Mike Sommer User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,163	That practically flies in the face and contradicts everything for which being a good versatile voice actor is all about. And it's not just my opinion, it's the opinion and experience of nearly every successful voice actor in town. Why? Because for every script an actor gets, choices must be made (Who, What, When, Where) and the more interesting and the more layered these choices are, the better the performance will be. The Voice Actor that can bring a living breathing fully developed and dimensional character to the mic, the better the chance are of getting the gig. This would go for everything -commercials, narration, promo and trailers, and not just animation and video games. And when speaking of voices, the more shadings, variances of voice and characters you have in your back pocket, the more valuable you are. By typecasting yourself as one character, with one read, with one style, you have successfully left everything else open to me. Thank you. Last edited by Mike Sommer; 06-09-2009 at 04:21 PM.

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06-09-2009, 08:36 PM	#12 (permalink)
JoeActor Administrator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,906	I've gotta agree with Mike to some extent. I was actually given the same advice when I started out in Los Angeles. Fortunately, I ignored it. Had I not been so stubborn about my versatility, I would not have had the great diversity of roles thus far. And those include commercial, promo and industrials. Each job requires a new character for me. But back to the original advice, and why it was given... I was basically told that the agents, casting, and producers could more easily handle me if I had a signature look/voice/style/whatever. Apparently, the thinking is that it's too complicated to be versatile right out of the gate. From those that I've worked with, I can tell you my versatility is a major selling point. I was recently called in for a video game session. They were confident enough that I was told to just come in. When I got there, I knocked out 5 characters in quick order. Even finished in half the time allotted. The main character was one I hadn't ever done before (20's Hispanic inner city!) Even though that was a video game, the characters must be real. Same as commercial copy. Ok, so I'm rambling, but I believe you should never hide your light under a basket. Adapt, Adopt, and Improve, Joe J Thomas www.JoeActor.com www.SoundsGoodToYou.com p.s. I wonder if the original poster is going to come back?

06-09-2009, 09:35 PM	#13 (permalink)
Mike Sommer User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,163	I'm not saying go hog wild with characters - it is after all a commercial demo- just demonstrate your acting ability in the most basic of terms. Show more than one dimension. Be interesting. A good commercial demo might include: ~ Signature Voice ~ Spots with some range of emotion - Happy, Sad, Serious, Funny, Deadpan, Sympathetic or what have you. ~ A dialog spot (preferably with someone of the opposite sex then you) ~ End with your Signature Voice. Because your Demo is you calling card, this is the best and possibly only means to audition for a potential client or agent. So it need to demonstrate your talents.

06-09-2009, 11:02 PM	#14 (permalink)
BobbyH User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 134	All great points, all very true and, Mike, we are closer than you think to being on the same page. Thank you for clearing up about not going “hog wild with characters.” That’s how I was interpreting your posts. (I wrote the rest of this in between projects, today, and just now checked back to see the latest posts. So, if you would indulge me?) As you know; I am not talking about character work, but signature voice work. Actors who are hired to brand a product by having such a recognizable and trusted sound (they test well with audiences) or whose voice performance perfectly emulates the producer’s idea of how the product should be represented. (Larry, God bless him, has a wonderful signature sound and a very marketable one, at that.) As for the signature read, basically, you should have five or six different variations on your sound. For example, no one acts the same way in different social environments. You would never act like a frat boy at black tie affair, correct? So, in essence, each different variation of your personality should be reflected on your demo. However, you need your strongest and most marketable demonstrated up front and repeated in the demo. It also needs to be reflected in your marketing. This read is your entry point into the national market and the read that will most likely carry you throughout your career. You will hopefully be “typecast” or remembered for this read.This is especially important for promo and trailer. (This was over all point I was trying to make) Mike, those “shadings" are also in a signature read. Except with a signature read it’s your life lessons and your point of view that are the background to create that “living breathing fully developed and dimensional character.” The difference between character work and a signature voice is that you, yourself, are the character. You’re being real. Now, a random thought: At some point in a career a decision is made, whether knowingly or not, to remain a “handy man” voice actor; one who is adequate enough to hire and cover everyday work (local commercial, IVR, industrial, etc.) or become a master storyteller. The masters are actors who have grown into their skin and have become proficient in all the nuances and subtleties of their reads. They make a name for themselves and become a brand/celebrity. Producers hire them because of who they are or what they represent. Both are respectable paths, it’s only a difference in the setting of personal goals, comfort levels and talent. The question is: which path will you take?

06-10-2009, 10:21 AM	#16 (permalink)
BobbyH User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 134	That's interesting. I always thought someone hired me because of my interpretation of the script, not because I was trying to channel someone else. So correct me if I am misinterpreting what you wrote, but, if someone hires Mike Sommer to be Mike Sommer, you're still going to try and be someone else?

06-10-2009, 10:28 AM	#17 (permalink)
BobbyH User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 134	For some reason I thought of this quote by Thomas Merton: "“There can be an intense egoism in following everybody else. People are in a hurry to magnify themselves by imitating what is popular - and too lazy to think of anything better. Hurry ruins saints as well as artists. They want quick success and they are in such a haste to get it that they cannot take time to be true to themselves. And when the madness is upon them they argue that their very haste is a species of integrity.”"

06-10-2009, 01:19 PM	#20 (permalink)
jsgilbert jsgilbert Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: San Francisco, California Posts: 835	Well, here I go again. I listened to Larry's demo and as someone who listens to many demos and makes receommendations to clients as well as runs castings, it was better than most of the ones I get. Now here's the thing. I am typing this quite literally 2 minutes after listening to it and there is nothig really memorable on it. I hear the same thing I often hear on demos in a few places and that was an emphasis on the mechanics, instead of hearing what I like to think of as an "organic process". I don't really know if this person can act or extend themselves. Pleasant voices I got. Competant actors that I enjoy working with and unfortunately don't have enough work for, I got. At this point there has to be a wow factor somewhere. Working MOR and just putting forth a nice voice may cut it for the dollar a hollar work, although quite honestly even on the lower paying jobs I soetimes send out, there is usually a large body of actors (people who can act) who are available. One trick pony's who have established themselves as being above the rank and file will often get work because of that "status". Often they are here today and gone tomorrow however in the wonderful world of voiceover. John Goodman has a very signature sound and it garners him work often as the guy next door or the every man's kind of guy, but it his ability to dig deep and pull out the emotions , the depth of delivery and interpretation that makes him so good at what he does. And it's uncanny how often you probably hear his work and don't know it's him. We actually pay attention to what is being said as opposed to who is saying it. Ultimately it comes down to one person's decision as to who gets the job and if our friend Larry here is sleeping with the v.p. broadcast creative for some large ad agency, then his demo is probably better than it needs to be. While the demo needs to be good, now more than ever, it often comes down to who you know and not what you know. Go work in the mailroom for a gaming company or ad agency and you will inevitably have better chances for getting v.o. work than if you didn't, regardless of how good your demo is or isn't.