Upping The Output

[Will Helton]

Hi, Everyone,

I recently started a thread here because of concerns I had about not getting the same levels on my recordings as I have previously. I've managed to rule out my mic as the cause of the problem and am thinking it might be the audio interface. Anyway, that's a separate problem.

On reflection another thing has occurred to me: even with my input turned up to the point that I redline the vocal in both of the audio recording apps I use, the final mix file is still not as loud as pieces I've download of Scott Pollack's (Scott does a lot of the same sort of stuff I hope to eventually be booking, so I find his pieces really excellent study material).

I've swapped a couple of emails with Scott, but he's using a completely different setup from me, so although his advice has been very helpful, I'm still not where I want to be.

Here is what I have:

Rode NT-1A mic
Edirol UA-25 Audio Capture Interface
MacBook Pro (2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo)
GarageBand
Audacity

As stated above, even if I jack up the input and redline the vocal I'm recording (and then even add gain in the mix), my pieces aren't as loud and rich as Scott's are.

A friend of mine who I don't get to see very often, but majored in audio engineering once told me that cutting out "useless" frequencies can boost the overall output/volume of a piece and I've tried this, but still don't get a product comparable with a lot of the other pieces I've heard here.

Is there anyone out there using a Mac that can give me some further advice and might even be willing to listen to a couple of test pieces to help me get over this hump?

Could it be that I need to put the mic into a mixer or pre-amp first, then through the UA-25 and then finally into the computer? Or, could it be that if I had a different editing package that would somehow improve the overall volume and body of the final file?

I've literally spent hours today trying various tweaks, but I'm still not really there.

Many thanks in advance,

Will

[Mike Sommer]

As I explained before, this is a USB powered device. It could very well be the the power from your laptop is the problem.

Think about it, your USB is powering the interface, a preamp and a mic.
USB was not designed to be a power-station.

Try this: unplug the interface USB, reboot your Mac Book, and try plugin into a different USB port.
This may or may not help. This interface device does not seem to provide the capability to use a
wallwart/DC connection. This being the case this device is not what I would ever call a prosumer device.
(On top of that I don't care for the "all in one devices," of any kind, because if one part goes down, it all
goes down -as you are discovering)

To further explain if you are using phantom power (48v), a mic will work properly between 50v and 25v but
if the the voltage starts to drop below 35v there often comes a noticeable amount of volume loss -
FYI: There is a preamp in condenser mics, this is to get the mic up usable levels, and it needs to be fed.

Bottom line I'm quite sure you are putting to much burden on your computers power supply by using such
devices. All I'm willing to power on my computer is a stand alone interface, even with that I still use a wallwart.

Also note that that 0dB analog is not the same as 0dB digital. So, as long as you are getting clean signal
into the computer you are okay. With clean audio you can boost it to the moon in the digital domain.

Please note: I'm not knocking your stuff, just pointing out the facts of such devices sold under the guise of pro gear.

[Will Helton]

Hi, Mike,

Thanks for your reply.

I can't claim to understand the intricacies of recording, so please bear with me.

I've tried the test you mentioned (rebooting and using the other USB connector), but the results are the same.

When you mention my MacBook is powering a mic, a preamp, and an interface, do you mean the preamp in the mic because I don't have a stand-alone preamp at the moment.

The Edirol UA-25 doesn't have a wallplug option (if that's what you mean by wallwart - that's not a term I'm familiar with).

If I have my laptop plugged into the mains power supply (DC power wall plug) and only run one audio app and the interface, do you believe I'm damaging my laptop? Again, I'm not well-versed in these things, so if you're able to give me some good advice, I would very much appreciate it.

I guess the next two questions are these: what would you do if you were me? What do I need to buy (within reason) to augment what I have? Would a standalone pre-amp boost the signal/gain/power sufficiently and take load off the MacBook (if that's a problem) or should I get a small 4 channel mixer or something similar. That was 3 questions, by the way. :)

Noting that the signal going into GarageBand/Audacity is digital, does that mean I just need to worry about getting a clean signal in (i.e. a good recording) and then boost the daylights out of it in software if I need to up the gain and this won't compromise/distort/hurt the recording?

Thanks again for you help.

Will

[Mike Sommer]

Originally Posted by Will Helton

I can't claim to understand the intricacies of recording, so please bear with me.

Not a problem.

I've tried the test you mentioned (rebooting and using the other USB connector), but the results are the same.

Okay

When you mention my MacBook is powering a mic, a preamp, and an interface, do you mean the preamp in the mic because I don't have a stand-alone preamp at the moment.

The Edirol UA-25 is a preamp/interface. That's why there is a volume control on it.

The Edirol UA-25 doesn't have a wallplug option (if that's what you mean by wallwart - that's not a term I'm familiar with).

That's what I mean.

If I have my laptop plugged into the mains power supply (DC power wall plug) and only run one audio app and the interface, do you believe I'm damaging my laptop? Again, I'm not well-versed in these things, so if you're able to give me some good advice, I would very much appreciate it.

You may be simply over taxing the PSU (Power Supply Unit) of the Mac Book. USB ports were not meant to be the power supply for large devices. It's not uncommon for USB ports to fail. You might take it yo your local Mac Guru and have them check it out.

I guess the next two questions are these: what would you do if you were me?

See if this problem happens on another computer. Is the limiter switch on? - turn it off. Is the sample rate of the Edirol UA-25 and Garage band the same? Get the Edirol UA-25 checked out.

What do I need to buy (within reason) to augment what I have?

Depends on your budget and how serious your are about getting into VO. If you are just practicing and working out there is nothing wrong with a USB mic. But if you are thinking of doing auditions more advanced gear will be needed.

Would a standalone pre-amp boost the signal/gain/power sufficiently and take load off the MacBook (if that's a problem) or should I get a small 4 channel mixer or something similar.

What you need is a interference and preamp that's not powered from the USB or a Firewire port.

My preference is for a stand alone preamp, mixer and interface. All powered via 110AC either direct or wallwart.

Noting that the signal going into GarageBand/Audacity is digital, does that mean I just need to worry about getting a clean signal in (i.e. a good recording) and then boost the daylights out of it in software if I need to up the gain and this won't compromise/distort/hurt the recording?

If you are recording that low of a signal in GB, that it's not at a decent level upon playback -then you have a problem.

[Will Helton]

Hi, Mike,

Thanks for answering all those points. I hope you don't mind a few more questions.

How would I test the sample rate that I'm getting into GarageBand? I'll try setting up the mic and interface on a PC laptop that I have (but isn't as good a spec as the MacBook, but we'll see what I get).

I've also turned off the limiter, so will see what results I get when I do some stuff later today.

You mentioned above:

"What you need is a interference and preamp that's not powered from the USB or a Firewire port.

My preference is for a stand alone preamp, mixer and interface. All powered via 110AC either direct or wallwart."

Can you suggest any or all of the above? My budget is the best I can get for reasonable money (i.e. I can't afford hundreds of dollars per piece of kit).

Also, this is probably just my misunderstanding of terminology, but you mentioned that working out with a USB mic is fine, but I'll need something better for auditions. The Rode NT-1A isn't a USB mic - it's XLR. I've been told by a number of sources (some of them VO professionals) that it's a good mic for VO auditions and even final recordings. I probably should have been clearer about the mic I'm using.

If you don't mind, I'll just do a quick take of me introducing myself and load that up to an internet share I have and send you the link in a PM if you don't mind listening to the 30 seconds or so of it and let me know what you think of the level and the quality.

Thanks again for all your help. It's very much appreciated.

[Mike Sommer]

Originally Posted by Will Helton

How would I test the sample rate that I'm getting into GarageBand? I'll try setting up the mic and interface on a PC laptop that I have (but isn't as good a spec as the MacBook, but we'll see what I get).

I'm not a Grageband Guru but this might help:
Sample Rates and Bit Depth

It seems that GB has a sample rate of 44100 (44.1K).

Can you suggest any or all of the above? My budget is the best I can get for reasonable money (i.e. I can't afford hundreds of dollars per piece of kit).

Some folks like the DBX 286A pre, Aphex 230 and the Art Tube MPA Gold. My interface of choice is the AudioFire2.

Also, this is probably just my misunderstanding of terminology, but you mentioned that working out with a USB mic is fine, but I'll need something better for auditions. The Rode NT-1A isn't a USB mic - it's XLR. I've been told by a number of sources (some of them VO professionals) that it's a good mic for VO auditions and even final recordings.

Then the above will get you on your way to some decent sound for now.
I'm sure others will have some input on gear.

The best thing to do is figure out a budget, then find something that won't break the bank.

[Will Helton]

Thanks for those suggestions, Mike. I'll see what I can find locally and give them a try.

[Emorgan_Voiceovers]

Will,

I won't even attempt to answer your technical questions. Mike gave you the info you need. I can help you as far as a pre/mic combo. I am assuming, based on this conversation, you need something reasonably priced. I use an Audio Technica AT4040 mic and go into a Dbx 286a. I go directly from the 286a into my sound card. I am attaching a sample for you. It really is a pretty darn clean sound for the money. There is absolutely no processing at all. Just me yapping. Hope that helps.

[Paul Plack]

Will, there may be some misunderstanding terms here. If you're saying you have the ability to record at full digital levels, but when played back you don't sound as loud as Scott, that's a whole different issue.

Different voices may have widely varying average volume within the same peak volume. Some people also record using compression, which works to increase average volume at the expense of dynamic range, and/or limiting, which reduces only the highest peaks, allowing the level to be increased for a higher average.

If you can post a brief MP3 file with a sample of Scott and a sample of yourself side-by-side, we could all look at it in in our editors, and perhaps offer more helpful advice.