Home Recording Studio (Gear/Setup)

Colin Campbell · 04-05-2009, 05:06 PM

AA is very "one-stop-shop."

While Paul is correct about these mixers not having monitor-mute when a mic is turned up... the Yamaha mixers at least have an on-off button on each channel. I find this more "radio like."

I use a Yamaha MG124c.

Paul Plack · 04-05-2009, 07:27 PM

Yep - AA is a very intuitive basic editor, and does all the loop tricks, too. Even comes with a bunch of pre-fab loops.

haneen · 04-05-2009, 10:34 PM

Jay,

Please pardon me if you've already decided on your interface...I didn't read the entire thread word for word, but I wanted to put my two cents in about m-audio.

I've had both a solo and a 410...and I'm looking for something to replace them. You'll have to constantly worry about hot plugging firewire issues, and my 410 is three years old and down to one basic function--only the spdif jack works. Others here may have difference experiences, but there are also a lot of angry folks on the m-audio tech support boards.

I don't know what you other options are, but you might want to consider them.

Good luck to you.

Jay Stevens · 04-05-2009, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haneen

Jay,

Please pardon me if you've already decided on your interface...I didn't read the entire thread word for word, but I wanted to put my two cents in about m-audio.

I've had both a solo and a 410...and I'm looking for something to replace them. You'll have to constantly worry about hot plugging firewire issues, and my 410 is three years old and down to one basic function--only the spdif jack works. Others here may have difference experiences, but there are also a lot of angry folks on the m-audio tech support boards.

I don't know what you other options are, but you might want to consider them.

Good luck to you.

Haneen,

Thank you for sharing your experience. I will keep that in mind when making my decision. That is the one thing I'm stuck on - the Audio Interface. My computer will have both USB and FIREWIRE ports - I hear that FIREWIRE is just better. Any truth to this?

I really need to make my mind up on this. Also, if I have a mixer than that is my pre-amp, corret?

I see many setups with a voice processor and compressor units in their rack. Are they really needed?

I just want to make sure that I have all of this right.

Gear --> Mixer --> Audio Interface --> Computer

Am I missing anything?

Thanks!

Paul Plack · 04-05-2009, 11:19 PM

Jay, you sound as if you're in a position to try and make every dollar count. I'd consider at least testing your computer's sound card before you buy an audio interface. If it doesn't have a line/aux input, forget it. If it does, get a cable to connect the XLR MAIN OUT jacks from your mixer to the sound card's line input, and at least give it a shot. If it's clean, it will let you research external A/D options.

(You'll probably have to make a custom dual-XLR-to-1/8"-mini cable.)

If you wind up with Adobe Audition, you'll have audio processing plug-ins which will stall the need for outboard processing gear. But, yes...you'll probably eventually want a processor that includes an expander/gate, compressor/limiter, de-esser, and possibly EQ.

Jay Stevens · 04-05-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Plack

But, yes...you'll probably eventually want a processor that includes an expander/gate, compressor/limiter, de-esser, and possibly EQ.

Great!

Could you recommend one to me?

haneen · 04-05-2009, 11:34 PM

Some generous gear guy here -- JS, Paul, Jacob... -- is going to be able to tell you exactly what your chain can be, and remember, there are many permutations depending on the equipment, but here's what I have found:

Firewire can be prickly with hot plugging--with the m-audio products you'll fry the device or the drive if you plug it in while power is on either--but it has the ability to send more information, faster. I have found that the 410 I use is cleaner than the USB Alesis mixer that I started with, but that also may have been the mixer (which I used a separate pre amp with). Depending on the unit you purchase, you also can daisy chain your equipment: My external harddrive is runs through my firewire i/o, so I only take up one port on the computer for two pieces of hardware. I don't believe that's possible with USB.

Now, as to whether you need a separate pre-amp, that depends on the equipment. The 410, for example--which I'm not necessarily recommending--is firewire with a built in pre-amp. That's why I bought it. I thought it was great, until I got an Aphex 230 preamp. The 410 is still my current interface, but now I bypass its preamp and by running the Aphex through the spidf port on the 410. So, yes, it is possible to not have a separate preamp, but having a good preamp is going to account for so much of your sound...it's not just the mic. Different mics will sound different on different preamps. To just get started, you could probably get away without one with a fair interface that includes a preamp, but it's worth the investment when you're warmed up.

I don't know enough about different brands to give you options on firewire interfaces that also include preamps, but someone here may.

Paul also makes a good point above about making use of the plug-ins on your DAW...this can help tide you over for a while, too, before you get into more outboard stuff, like a separate compressor, for example.

Paul Plack · 04-06-2009, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Stevens

Could you recommend one to me?

Jay, I really don't feel qualified to do that right now. I'm using a very low-end set-up by the standards of most on this forum, and have stayed very busy with it, but 2009 is going to be a year of upgrades for me in a couple areas.

I have a dbx 266XL, a two-channel compressor which was very popular in the late 1990s. It's not really optimized for recording dry voice on a mic. The compressor is good, and it has an expander, but no true noise gate or limiter available. The expander is painfully audible in its action, so it doesn't get used much. I don't even have a power cord connected right now.

I have a Behringer MDX1600, another two-channel box, and it's been a workhorse for me. A really sweet noise gate, compressor with auto or manual control, separate true limiter, and a couple of tools to control pumping and mud. But, its de-esser is in/out only, not adjustable, and there's no bypass switch to take the box out-of-path completely, which I consider an oversight. (I just pull the insert patch cable out of the back of my Xenyx 1622 when I want it off.) Still, an awesome box for around $80 new street price.

I have been very impressed with the Symetrix 528E. It appears to have the flexibility to make any mic sound great, and is standard-issue in radio stations, where tough environments often need taming. But at $500 new, it's way too expensive to be disposable, and it uses a proprietary chip in the first gain stage, so it will also be very expensive if it needs fixing. I also prefer two-channel processors, because I use the stereo coupling function for ducking when recording phone interviews, with my phone hybrid fed through the second channel. Still, if I could find a 528E at the right price...

I'd suggest getting started with the preamps built into the 1204, see if you can get the mixer's analog output cleanly into your computer's analog line input if you have one, and play with software plug-ins to figure out what processing you think you need to do to get the sound you want. Then, you can narrow your research criteria. Various boxes do different things well, and once you see what the various settings do in your software plug-ins, you may be able to rule out some products simply by looking at the range of their controls, for example.

Another possibility might be to send around a raw, unprocessed sample of your voice, and see what others with experience think sounds good on it, and what boxes or plug-ins they used.

Colin Campbell · 04-06-2009, 11:13 AM

Probably the most impressive thing about a 528e is the expander/gate. It is silky smooth. Probably why it's so popular in radio studios which can be noisy. Most noise gates can be heard (I hear them in folks audio all the time) and can be very annoying. The 528e's is fairly transparent if you adjust it properly.

I have two 528e's and won't part with them.

Mike Sommer · 04-06-2009, 04:14 PM

Keeping your sound chain simple is probably the most important thing you can do, but I'm not a fan of all in one boxes.
I stress developing your audio before it gets to the computer, this allows you to walk in turn on your gear (let all warm up) record and send it off. Other then a little editing, you should not have to do anything else to your audio files.

This means your room should be free of excessive echo and outside noise, that is to say "Clean and Dry." This will eliminate the need for over processing and editing.

Your mic and preamp are going to be dependent on what sounds good to you and what you can afford.

Preamps:
Some of the local favorites under $700:ART MPA Gold, Presonus Eureka, FMR's RNP-8380, and the Speck 5.0.
Boutique Preamps: John Hardy M1, Great River, Buzz Audio, Purple Audio, Brett Avrill, Little Labs, Sebatron, Avalon, and UA LA610.
And the vintage pres: RCA, Neve, Telefunken, Neumann,

Compressors:
Keep it simple here. All the compressor is doing here is to pulling everything together and even out the level. Not squashing it into splat.
A simple DBX is just all you need. I like the 166LX, I picked mine up on Craigslist for $75. Though if you want to add some real tastiness to your audio an LA2A compressor is the magic box to do that.

Mixer:
Keep is simple but flexible to meet the "pro end" needs. CHEAP mixers are the death of audio. As I've said before Soundcraft M Series meets our needs very well, with British EQ's, and 100mm faders (These long faders give your more precise volume level adjustment) and they sound fantastic!

Interface:
There are many to chose from. I keep it simple and use an AudioFire 2,
or you can drop some coin on a RME FF800 for similar sound and performance.

Microphone:
We can go round and round on this but I will just say, If you get a condenser mic it will sound like crap if your room sounds like crap. If you're not willing to address your room then you are relegated to crappy audio or a dynamic mic. Your gear is important but the room you record in is even more important.

04-05-2009, 05:06 PM	#11 (permalink)
Colin Campbell Voice Talent and Producer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 935	AA is very "one-stop-shop." While Paul is correct about these mixers not having monitor-mute when a mic is turned up... the Yamaha mixers at least have an on-off button on each channel. I find this more "radio like." I use a Yamaha MG124c. __________________ Colin Campbell... Voice Talent... Audio Producer... www.ColinCampbellVoice.com Member SaVoa... #07040

04-05-2009, 10:34 PM	#13 (permalink)
haneen User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New York Posts: 87	Jay, Please pardon me if you've already decided on your interface...I didn't read the entire thread word for word, but I wanted to put my two cents in about m-audio. I've had both a solo and a 410...and I'm looking for something to replace them. You'll have to constantly worry about hot plugging firewire issues, and my 410 is three years old and down to one basic function--only the spdif jack works. Others here may have difference experiences, but there are also a lot of angry folks on the m-audio tech support boards. I don't know what you other options are, but you might want to consider them. Good luck to you. __________________ Haneen Arafat Voice Projects, LLC haneenvo.com 973-953-8328

04-05-2009, 11:34 PM	#17 (permalink)
haneen User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New York Posts: 87	Some generous gear guy here -- JS, Paul, Jacob... -- is going to be able to tell you exactly what your chain can be, and remember, there are many permutations depending on the equipment, but here's what I have found: Firewire can be prickly with hot plugging--with the m-audio products you'll fry the device or the drive if you plug it in while power is on either--but it has the ability to send more information, faster. I have found that the 410 I use is cleaner than the USB Alesis mixer that I started with, but that also may have been the mixer (which I used a separate pre amp with). Depending on the unit you purchase, you also can daisy chain your equipment: My external harddrive is runs through my firewire i/o, so I only take up one port on the computer for two pieces of hardware. I don't believe that's possible with USB. Now, as to whether you need a separate pre-amp, that depends on the equipment. The 410, for example--which I'm not necessarily recommending--is firewire with a built in pre-amp. That's why I bought it. I thought it was great, until I got an Aphex 230 preamp. The 410 is still my current interface, but now I bypass its preamp and by running the Aphex through the spidf port on the 410. So, yes, it is possible to not have a separate preamp, but having a good preamp is going to account for so much of your sound...it's not just the mic. Different mics will sound different on different preamps. To just get started, you could probably get away without one with a fair interface that includes a preamp, but it's worth the investment when you're warmed up. I don't know enough about different brands to give you options on firewire interfaces that also include preamps, but someone here may. Paul also makes a good point above about making use of the plug-ins on your DAW...this can help tide you over for a while, too, before you get into more outboard stuff, like a separate compressor, for example. __________________ Haneen Arafat Voice Projects, LLC haneenvo.com 973-953-8328

04-06-2009, 11:13 AM	#19 (permalink)
Colin Campbell Voice Talent and Producer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 935	Probably the most impressive thing about a 528e is the expander/gate. It is silky smooth. Probably why it's so popular in radio studios which can be noisy. Most noise gates can be heard (I hear them in folks audio all the time) and can be very annoying. The 528e's is fairly transparent if you adjust it properly. I have two 528e's and won't part with them. __________________ Colin Campbell... Voice Talent... Audio Producer... www.ColinCampbellVoice.com Member SaVoa... #07040

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04-05-2009, 07:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
Paul Plack User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Murray, Utah, USA Posts: 492	Yep - AA is a very intuitive basic editor, and does all the loop tricks, too. Even comes with a bunch of pre-fab loops.

04-05-2009, 11:19 PM	#15 (permalink)
Paul Plack User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Murray, Utah, USA Posts: 492	Jay, you sound as if you're in a position to try and make every dollar count. I'd consider at least testing your computer's sound card before you buy an audio interface. If it doesn't have a line/aux input, forget it. If it does, get a cable to connect the XLR MAIN OUT jacks from your mixer to the sound card's line input, and at least give it a shot. If it's clean, it will let you research external A/D options. (You'll probably have to make a custom dual-XLR-to-1/8"-mini cable.) If you wind up with Adobe Audition, you'll have audio processing plug-ins which will stall the need for outboard processing gear. But, yes...you'll probably eventually want a processor that includes an expander/gate, compressor/limiter, de-esser, and possibly EQ.

04-06-2009, 04:14 PM	#20 (permalink)
Mike Sommer User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,158	Keeping your sound chain simple is probably the most important thing you can do, but I'm not a fan of all in one boxes. I stress developing your audio before it gets to the computer, this allows you to walk in turn on your gear (let all warm up) record and send it off. Other then a little editing, you should not have to do anything else to your audio files. This means your room should be free of excessive echo and outside noise, that is to say "Clean and Dry." This will eliminate the need for over processing and editing. Your mic and preamp are going to be dependent on what sounds good to you and what you can afford. Preamps: Some of the local favorites under $700:ART MPA Gold, Presonus Eureka, FMR's RNP-8380, and the Speck 5.0. Boutique Preamps: John Hardy M1, Great River, Buzz Audio, Purple Audio, Brett Avrill, Little Labs, Sebatron, Avalon, and UA LA610. And the vintage pres: RCA, Neve, Telefunken, Neumann, Compressors: Keep it simple here. All the compressor is doing here is to pulling everything together and even out the level. Not squashing it into splat. A simple DBX is just all you need. I like the 166LX, I picked mine up on Craigslist for $75. Though if you want to add some real tastiness to your audio an LA2A compressor is the magic box to do that. Mixer: Keep is simple but flexible to meet the "pro end" needs. CHEAP mixers are the death of audio. As I've said before Soundcraft M Series meets our needs very well, with British EQ's, and 100mm faders (These long faders give your more precise volume level adjustment) and they sound fantastic! Interface: There are many to chose from. I keep it simple and use an AudioFire 2, or you can drop some coin on a RME FF800 for similar sound and performance. Microphone: We can go round and round on this but I will just say, If you get a condenser mic it will sound like crap if your room sounds like crap. If you're not willing to address your room then you are relegated to crappy audio or a dynamic mic. Your gear is important but the room you record in is even more important.