UNION Voices with Voices.com and V123

bigbry · 03-12-2008, 01:33 PM

OK Just wondering about Union work with Voices and V123. I'm a member of ACTRA in Canada which is tied to AFTRA and SAG. My union tells me that if I voice anything it has to be under the price guidelines of any of those unions. That's fair to me.
Voices tells me that if a non-union client posts...with budget of 100-250 the union person can do the spot but should quote the union scale for the job and explain that you are union, that why the high quote. If the client likes your voice he won't mind paying more.
Not only are there 200 people applying for the job quoting within budget but there are a bunch of folks applying way over budget. Voices went on to tell me that More clients book a voice based on the demo, rather that the price quote. Which I find really hard to believe. When you want to buy something you know how much you want to spend. You have a budget.
What do you think, does joining the union help when it comes to Voices and V123.
And I know AFTRA and SAG are different from ACTRA and have different rules.
Thanks and CHEERS
Bry

PS if you want and St Paddy's ADULT giggle GUYS
Marketing Guys on ST.PADDY’S DAY(adult) « Bigbry’s Weblog

bigbry · 03-12-2008, 06:49 PM

I can't believe there's not one Union person with any advice.....Where are the Bergans and the Fraleys now...OH man this is SAD...like they would audition on Voices or V123
Bry

Bob Bergen · 03-12-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbry

I can't believe there's not one Union person with any advice.....Where are the Bergans and the Fraleys now...OH man this is SAD...like they would audition on Voices or V123
Bry

Well, I can't speak for Fraley. He was probably shining his Voicey Award. ;-)

Bergen was on a plane all day.

I myself don't really know the ins and outs of ACTRA, or how things are done on this site, either. I can only speak for SAG/AFTRA.

With S&A it has nothing to do with the fee they pay you. If you are a member you have to work under a union contract. So even if a non union gig pays double scale you still can't do it if you are union. And if you are a member of even just one of the performing unions, this prevents you from doing any nonunion work. What I mean by this is, if you are AFTRA but not SAG, you can't do a non union project that if union would fall under SAG jurisdiction. Also, you can't do non union theater.

SO-if there are any ACTRA folk out there who can pick it up from here and help out Bryan, it's your turn!!

;-)

JoeActor · 03-12-2008, 07:25 PM

Hey Bry,

Bob's right about SAG/AFTRA. If you are a full member, you are not supposed to do non-union work. However, there are a number of people who still do non-union despite the rules. If you're "caught in the act(ing)", they can kick you out, I suppose.

One other option we have in the states is called "Financial Core". It's a legal option that is provided for all unions (not just acting ones). There are a lot of opinions and sides to the issue of going "Fi-Core". In a nutshell, you are revoking your full membership in the union and become a "Dues Paying Non-Member" (in SAG/AFTRA lingo anyway). What's it mean? Once you are "Fi-Core" you can do union and non-union work without penalty. The down side is that you are no longer allowed to vote or hold office in the unions, and other union functions are closed to you as well. You must pettition the union if you ever want to be a "full" member again. And of course there are detrimental effects to the union itself. This is a huge ball of worms (er, can of wax?), and there are volumes of essays devoted to the merits of both sides.

I'm amazed that Actra will allow you to do non-union as long as it pays scale. I'd like to hear more about that. I also understand you have to be a Canadian citizen to join - is that correct?

Questionably yours,
Joe J Thomas
Joe J. Thomas Acting Portfolio

The Voice · 03-12-2008, 09:12 PM

Apparently you are too impatient to wait for an answer. This is a copy of my response to your post on another forum:

I am of the volition that you charge what you charge.

Price is not the reason someone should hire you. If you are thinking price is the only reason you get work from clients, then you are using the wrong sites to find work.

Yes, there is competition and some clients hire based upon price alone. If these are the type of clients you desire, then audition for them, if not, audition only for the clients who are willing to pay the freight.

Added for clarity: The work I receive from the sites mentioned either accept AFTRA for broadcast projects or I do not work do the project. Your client(s) has/have the right to contact the union as a non-signator and pay the fees required. Thus, even though the work is non-union, it is done through the union and you will not be penalized.

Frank Frederick
"The Voice" tm

AFTRA member since 1974
_________________
SaVoa #07009

P.S.: I don very little "broadcast" work through the aforementioned websites.

BobbyH · 03-12-2008, 09:20 PM

Hi All,

Bob, it's funny you should mention Fraley; there's an entire article on how to turn a non-union into a union gig featuring Pat here!

Bob Bergen · 03-13-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeActor

Hey Bry,

Bob's right about SAG/AFTRA. If you are a full member, you are not supposed to do non-union work. However, there are a number of people who still do non-union despite the rules. If you're "caught in the act(ing)", they can kick you out, I suppose.

One other option we have in the states is called "Financial Core". It's a legal option that is provided for all unions (not just acting ones). There are a lot of opinions and sides to the issue of going "Fi-Core". In a nutshell, you are revoking your full membership in the union and become a "Dues Paying Non-Member" (in SAG/AFTRA lingo anyway). What's it mean? Once you are "Fi-Core" you can do union and non-union work without penalty. The down side is that you are no longer allowed to vote or hold office in the unions, and other union functions are closed to you as well. You must pettition the union if you ever want to be a "full" member again. And of course there are detrimental effects to the union itself. This is a huge ball of worms (er, can of wax?), and there are volumes of essays devoted to the merits of both sides.

I'm amazed that Actra will allow you to do non-union as long as it pays scale. I'd like to hear more about that. I also understand you have to be a Canadian citizen to join - is that correct?

Questionably yours,
Joe J Thomas
Joe J. Thomas Acting Portfolio

Going fi-core also weakens the union. The damage fi-core has done is mind blowing.

Think about it. You are a producer. You can either hire a brilliant union actor and pay union scale with residuals OR you can hire that same brilliant actor who is fi-core and pay lesser fees and no residuals!

Not a hard decision, huh!!!!

With the numbers of brilliant actors going fi-core for "an" opportunity, it's hurting them AND their fellow actors in the long run. But most people don't look at the big picture. They only see now.

bigbry · 03-13-2008, 11:20 AM

My question is ...is it worth belonging to Voices or V123 when union voices have to charge union scale?

Yes ACTRA says that you can voice for anyone as long as they are affiliated with ACTRA, SAG or AFTRA. Yes you're a union grunt now...lol

Fraley on the other hand says that if there is a Non union job posted...you should charge them union scale, pay the union out of that and everyone is happy and thus you've turned a non union job into a union job...... SO if the client has posted a budget of 100-250 and the union scale is 350-500 (and that's what you quote).....what are the chances of getting that job...???

Thanks for your help guys

Hey Bob looks like you and I are like the Susan Lucci of Voice Awards...lol

Bob Bergen · 03-13-2008, 01:12 PM

It isn't about the amount of money the producer is paying. They have to do it with a union contract, through a union signatory, paying into your health benefits and pension. They can pay you tripple scale, but if they don't do the above it's still nonunion and you can't do it..legally.

I think you misunderstood Pat. Actors don't pay the union. And making something union from nonunion has nothing to do with paying AFTRA. What you CAN do is ask a producer to pay union scale, go union by finding a signatory to pay you, etc.

JoeActor · 03-13-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Bergen

It isn't about the amount of money the producer is paying. They have to do it with a union contract, through a union signatory, paying into your health benefits and pension. They can pay you tripple scale, but if they don't do the above it's still nonunion and you can't do it..legally.

I think you misunderstood Pat. Actors don't pay the union. And making something union from nonunion has nothing to do with paying AFTRA. What you CAN do is ask a producer to pay union scale, go union by finding a signatory to pay you, etc.

Thanks Bob - I misunderstood Pat's article too.

It does read like you can just pay Aftra and still do Non-Union.

Makes more sense that the union has to be involved more closely with the production...

Joe

03-12-2008, 01:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
bigbry User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Saskatoon SK Canada Posts: 265	UNION Voices with Voices.com and V123 OK Just wondering about Union work with Voices and V123. I'm a member of ACTRA in Canada which is tied to AFTRA and SAG. My union tells me that if I voice anything it has to be under the price guidelines of any of those unions. That's fair to me. Voices tells me that if a non-union client posts...with budget of 100-250 the union person can do the spot but should quote the union scale for the job and explain that you are union, that why the high quote. If the client likes your voice he won't mind paying more. Not only are there 200 people applying for the job quoting within budget but there are a bunch of folks applying way over budget. Voices went on to tell me that More clients book a voice based on the demo, rather that the price quote. Which I find really hard to believe. When you want to buy something you know how much you want to spend. You have a budget. What do you think, does joining the union help when it comes to Voices and V123. And I know AFTRA and SAG are different from ACTRA and have different rules. Thanks and CHEERS Bry PS if you want and St Paddy's ADULT giggle GUYS Marketing Guys on ST.PADDY’S DAY(adult) « Bigbry’s Weblog

03-12-2008, 09:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
The Voice User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Park City, Utah Posts: 18	Apparently you are too impatient to wait for an answer. This is a copy of my response to your post on another forum: I am of the volition that you charge what you charge. Price is not the reason someone should hire you. If you are thinking price is the only reason you get work from clients, then you are using the wrong sites to find work. Yes, there is competition and some clients hire based upon price alone. If these are the type of clients you desire, then audition for them, if not, audition only for the clients who are willing to pay the freight. Added for clarity: The work I receive from the sites mentioned either accept AFTRA for broadcast projects or I do not work do the project. Your client(s) has/have the right to contact the union as a non-signator and pay the fees required. Thus, even though the work is non-union, it is done through the union and you will not be penalized. Frank Frederick "The Voice" tm AFTRA member since 1974 _________________ SaVoa #07009 P.S.: I don very little "broadcast" work through the aforementioned websites. Last edited by The Voice; 03-12-2008 at 09:17 PM.

03-13-2008, 11:20 AM	#8 (permalink)
bigbry User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Saskatoon SK Canada Posts: 265	My ? My question is ...is it worth belonging to Voices or V123 when union voices have to charge union scale? Yes ACTRA says that you can voice for anyone as long as they are affiliated with ACTRA, SAG or AFTRA. Yes you're a union grunt now...lol Fraley on the other hand says that if there is a Non union job posted...you should charge them union scale, pay the union out of that and everyone is happy and thus you've turned a non union job into a union job...... SO if the client has posted a budget of 100-250 and the union scale is 350-500 (and that's what you quote).....what are the chances of getting that job...??? Thanks for your help guys Hey Bob looks like you and I are like the Susan Lucci of Voice Awards...lol

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03-12-2008, 06:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
bigbry User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Saskatoon SK Canada Posts: 265	I can't believe there's not one Union person with any advice.....Where are the Bergans and the Fraleys now...OH man this is SAD...like they would audition on Voices or V123 Bry

03-12-2008, 07:25 PM	#4 (permalink)
JoeActor Administrator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,529	Hey Bry, Bob's right about SAG/AFTRA. If you are a full member, you are not supposed to do non-union work. However, there are a number of people who still do non-union despite the rules. If you're "caught in the act(ing)", they can kick you out, I suppose. One other option we have in the states is called "Financial Core". It's a legal option that is provided for all unions (not just acting ones). There are a lot of opinions and sides to the issue of going "Fi-Core". In a nutshell, you are revoking your full membership in the union and become a "Dues Paying Non-Member" (in SAG/AFTRA lingo anyway). What's it mean? Once you are "Fi-Core" you can do union and non-union work without penalty. The down side is that you are no longer allowed to vote or hold office in the unions, and other union functions are closed to you as well. You must pettition the union if you ever want to be a "full" member again. And of course there are detrimental effects to the union itself. This is a huge ball of worms (er, can of wax?), and there are volumes of essays devoted to the merits of both sides. I'm amazed that Actra will allow you to do non-union as long as it pays scale. I'd like to hear more about that. I also understand you have to be a Canadian citizen to join - is that correct? Questionably yours, Joe J Thomas Joe J. Thomas Acting Portfolio

03-12-2008, 09:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
BobbyH User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 45	Hi All, Bob, it's funny you should mention Fraley; there's an entire article on how to turn a non-union into a union gig featuring Pat here!

03-13-2008, 01:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
Bob Bergen User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 145	It isn't about the amount of money the producer is paying. They have to do it with a union contract, through a union signatory, paying into your health benefits and pension. They can pay you tripple scale, but if they don't do the above it's still nonunion and you can't do it..legally. I think you misunderstood Pat. Actors don't pay the union. And making something union from nonunion has nothing to do with paying AFTRA. What you CAN do is ask a producer to pay union scale, go union by finding a signatory to pay you, etc.