Pissed

[Dina Monaco-Boland]

I can understand your thought process but I don't understand how it is part of your marketing. If they have already contacted you personally you know they know you and are interested in you... whether it be for the project at hand or for a future project. They already know you're out there.

I think it may be just so we can settle our own minds more than anything else. Unless, and perhaps this is the point I may be missing, it's to give the seeker a gentle reminder that you're out there and that may inspire them to think about you.

I have to be honest in that I'm just not that comfortable doing that-- and to note-- I'll admit I'm a terrible salesperson so maybe I'm off base. I'm just looking at it from the other side after having been there myself.

[todd ellis]

i was just talking with a member of this board off-line this morning about following up with past clients for future work. this is something i ALWAYS used to do (with reasonable success) - but for whatever reason i have stopped doing it. too busy? maybe - but that's no excuse. if they used me once there is a better than average chance they'll use me again with the slightest shove. i'm going to start doing this again.

[bigbry]

Lets stir the pot some more. You all seem to think that if you run a business that looks for vo artists you don’t have to thank anyone. Lets look at this in real life.
You decide to get married and you invite 200 people to your wedding= client asking for voices. You then ask people to go through a gift registry=giving a script to be read and using your gifts to read it. At your wedding you find that everyone showed up and gave you a gift through the registry. Now don’t thank anyone and just take all the gifts and go home. I now understand, that if you’re one of the lucky ones to be invited to the wedding, you should be thanking them.
Just a thought on this subject...cheers to you all and thanks for a wonderful and information filled thread.

[todd ellis]

bry ... that's a good analogy - but for casting purposes - i think this one works better:

i'm shopping (the casting director) and i'm looking for a sound card (the voice) i go to zzounds, sweetwater and bsw looking for sound cards. i find the sound card i like best at a price i am willing to pay at bsw and i buy it. i do not write the other two competitors a note saying i liked their sound cards as well, but chose another ... i simply find a product i like and buy it. i may make my next purchase at the same store --- or i may shop around again.

jmho

[Bob Bergen]

Bry, my friend, this is not a wedding. It's show biz. You're looking for gratitude and respect? You won't find it here. And if you do, that's icing on your wedding cake.

I'm sure (actually I assume...but I assume I'm correct) that you don't spend THAT much time dwelling on thank you's from buyers. But if you do, I advise you reevaluate the time spent. There are SO many more proactive ways to spend your time.

I visit this site often because I enjoy offering my ideas and opinions for success in this business. I know what works, and I know what doesn't. I can guarantee those making a great living in this business have never invested a moment whether they've received a thank you for auditioning.

One of the keys to success in this business is a thick skin. Once you've auditioned, it's over. You move on to the next audition or gig. When my agent calls me for a booking I literally have to look at my appointment book or find the sound file from the audition on my computer to refresh my memory. Once the audition is sent, I've moved on to the next opportunity. I could care less if it was submitted, listened to, or that I was or wasn't thanked.

And FYI-your agent isn't obligated to submit your audition just because they ask you to read. Often they are asked to submit the top 5 reads. They audition maybe 25. But since they can only submit 5, 20 don't get heard. Hey-that's show biz!! Agents represent anywhere from 150-750 clients, depending on the size of their office. If you are fortunate enough to be one of the 25 chosen to read, that's all you can ask for.

And should your agent be thanking you for reading??????? Of course not.

Should you thank your agent for the audition?? Maybe. But hey-they are just doing their job. You pay them to send you the auditions you are right for. If you book the gig you pay them 10% of your income.

Now, I said "maybe" above because there are times a thank you to your agent is in order. Let's say you've added a promo track to your demo and have had several of those heart to heart talks with your agent about how you'd love to read for more promo work. It's so hard for an agent to get promo copy, let alone get newbies a chance to read for them. But your agent finally gets you the opportunity, and you go in to your local FOX affiliate to read for a contracted gig that could pay you several thousand a month.

Sure, I think a thank you to your agent would be nice. Not expected!!!!! But nice.

If MY agent spends a moment dwelling on the fact he didn't get a thank you note for doing his job (sending a client to an audition) then that's a moment he isn't doing something proactive for his other clients...and me!!!!!!!!!

And if you book it??? Maybe a bottle of wine would be a nice gesture to your agent.

Or not! It's a lovely gesture. But no agent expects it. What they do expect is to be paid 10% of your chunky monthly salary from that promo contract.

Gratitude is a huge part of success. Not expected or assumed gratitude. But YOUR daily gratitude. I'm telling you, your success will quadruple with this philosophy!

[John Bigl]

great thread ... helpful comments..

IMO, Mr. Bergen sums it up quite nicely when he wrote:
" Sure, I think a thank you to your agent would be nice. Not expected!!!!! But nice"

"not expected, but nice"

yes, getting a thank you is nice but, imo, expecting one, or even demanding one causes needless suffering..

so, if i may put on my floppy lay-psychologist hat and happy buddha belly: theres a big difference between demands and preferences.. unmet demands, as in "i must be thanked by a VO seeker each time i send them a demo", causes suffering; the option of a preference, as in "gee, that sure would be nice" (for a 'thank you' or almost anything else in life) lessens suffering by simply being able to let it go when a 'thank you' isn't made..

"blessed are the flexible, for they shall not be bent out of shape" (anon)


Be Well

[avitoots]

I agree with Bob about being thankful for every opportunity presented to us. There are so many people out there trying to get work that any time you're asked to audition it is a gift. At least in my mind it is.

Someone brought up the fact that when you interviewed for a job in the corporate world you used to get a thank you letter. Let me shed a little bit of light on that. I used to be a legal secretary at a small law firm and one of my duties was sending out those letters. The attorneys didn't both with it and, since I was the only secretary working for 5 litigators and 1 criinal attorney, those letters were at the bottom of my priority list and often-times didn't get sent out because I just didn't have the time. It had nothing to do with being rude or inconsiderate but more to do with "do I blow a court deadline or spend time on the thank you letters." Meeting that court deadline was just a little more important. That's the bottom line.

As far as follow-ups go, as I stated in my previous post, I believe there's a proper time to do a follow-up and, I believe, e-mail has made it much less disruptive than a phone call would have before e-mail became a regular business practice. If you are one of the horde submitting an audition then, no, it's not appropriate. However, if you have exchanged several e-mails and phone calls regarding a project, then, yes, it is appripriate. You have spent considerable time communicating with the client about a project. E-mail allows the client to respond at their leisure, i.e., when they have time to take a look at and respond to e-mails not related to the project they are currently working on.

As far as follow-ups being part of your marketing plan, yes, it is true that the client knows who you are at that moment for that particular project. However, 5 minutes from now they may totally forget who you are. I once read in a marketing newsletter or book (can't remember exactly where) that it takes 6 or 7 contacts before a prospect remembers who you are. Each time you contact a prospective client you remind them that you are out there. In this business, out of sight out of mind is clearly at work. However, you need to be smart about the contacts. I've spoken to several producers through Women In Film/Chicago who have told me that my quarterly mailings were just about right. Not too often but often-enough for them not to forget that I'm out here and available. I've also been at a workshop where an ad agency producer talked about a VO who called him every day asking if he had work for her. He was not at all pleased with the frequencey of the phone calls.

You need to be smart about contacting clients. I also believe you need to check in with them on a regular basis just to remind them that you're out there and available. More than likely, unless you have a long-standing relationship with them, they're only going to remember the last person they worked with or the last really great audition they heard. A short note saying you've done this that and the other thing (all related to your VO business) and can you be of service shouldn't prove to be disruptive. I recently sent a short note to a prospect in California who sent me a nice e-mail after receiving an audition through Voices.com. He didn't respond for several days but when he finally did, it was a very nice e-mail and he didn't seem to have any problem with me contact him.

Didn't Hal Riney sell his agency to some conglomerate within the last year or so?

Arlene Kahn

[todd ellis]

bob wrote:

chunky monthly salary

isn't that a Ben & Jerry's flavor? i love that!

[Bob Bergen]

I don't think so. I'd never let any agent take 10% of my Ben and Jerry's!!

;-)

[todd ellis]

smart man ... money's money ... but ice cream, well ....