Message to up-and-comers...

[jsgilbert]

?

[Diane Havens]

See, that's the wit I'm talking about! Pithy and to the pin-point.

(But you forgot the emoticon)

[David Love]

Originally Posted by Colin Campbell

If one enjoys doing something whether or not they are successful at it, how is that "banging your head against the wall?" Working at a job you don't like for a steady paycheck is closer to that sort of pain. I really don't get the analogy.

Agreed.

....and everyone defines "success" differently don't they?

[Lee Gordon]

Originally Posted by Jon Morss

But, imagine where we would be if Thomas Edison,The Wright Brothers, Henry Ford, Bob Bergen, Mel Blanc, Daws Butler or anyone in the past that have created great things for the entire world gave up when things got tough or just because they had more failures than successes.

And what about Herb Fracklebrunner, the Dorkleman Brothers, Darius Bimple, or Elvin Turnipgreen? They didn't give up either. What? You say you've never heard of them? Of course not. They never succeeded.

It's easy to point to certain examples of people who persevered and succeeded because they are well known, having been celebrated for their successes. But the names on your list all have something in common besides grit and determination and a plan: they are all immensely talented. The could deliver the goods.

The landscape is littered with people you've never heard of with just as much drive and determination but without the skills to back it up.

I am not remotely suggesting that anyone should not plunge into the world of voice overs -- or any other persuit that sparks his or her imagination. If you have the passion, you owe it to yourself to follow your muse and give it a go. You just need to do so with your eyes open. Desire alone -- and even desire combined with talent -- is no guarantee you'll be successful.

On the other hand, giving up before you make the attempt is a guarantee you won't succeed. So, go for it! (Just don't quit your day job. )

[James Lorenz]

I always love reading threads like these because it shows what drives people to succeed. No one is right or wrong, it's how you push yourself. Through emotional means, a strict reality driven process, or something in-between we all hope to reach our goals based on who we are.
Good stuff!

[jsgilbert]

A man goes to church and begins praying begging God to let him win the Lottery.

A week passes and the man returns to the church and says "God let me win the lottery. Not for me, but for my wife. We are growing old with little to look forward to and little retirement, please let me win the lottery for my wife"

Another week passes and the man returns to the church. This time he is even more passionate as he says "God let me win the lottery. Not for me but for my son who has been accepted to Harvard. There is no way I could pay for him to go, so please let me win the lottery for my son"

Another week passes and the man returns to the church and falling on his knees, he cries out in a passionate plea "Dear God, let me win the lottery. Not for me, but for my daughter. She has a man she wants to maryy and I just don't..."

At that point the praying man is interrupted by a giant booming voice calling his name. The voie say "BOB, BOB!"

The old man looks up and asks "Is that you God?"

The voice grows louder and seemingly coming from all directions it says "Bob, you need to buy a ticket first.

[Melbasvoice]

I like your concept, J.S. You should pitch that.

I only bang my head against the wall when my neighbor decides to pressure wash his house while I'm recording.

[Colin Campbell]

With much trepidation....
------------------------------------
I appreciate you very much JS because you've made me realize that there are people in this world more negative than myself.

I grew up as, and am still legally blind. I ask no favors. I can't drive and it sucks. I just like to believe in stories of success against all odds. Why is it you make that a bad thing?

God man... what is your motive? Please don't call this a "personal attack," that gets really old. It seems if I dare mention your name it is somehow a "personal attack." Have you ever considered the image you put forth?

Colin

[SilverSurfer3001]

Colin - I'm not so sure that JS is being negative so much as he is being real.

(Caveat - I am in no way attempting to speaking for Mr Gilbert; the man is imminently qualified to do that for himself)

I think that one thing that is incredibly dangerous about entering into this bidniss is that if you read a few books about how "you too can become independently wealthy - all it takes is a good voice and a lot of persistence" you can easily believe it.

I bought into that mentality quite readily. I have a decent voice. There are many many many more out ther who have voices better than mine who will never even think of cracking open a mic, There are folks whose voice isn't nearly as good as mine who are making piles of money doing the very thing that I aspire to do. No bitternes, anger, resentment at all - just keeping it real...

There is an X-Factor: An intangible that cannot be seen or described. But it's there, and people know it when they hear it. To say with absolute assurity - as so many of the "get-rich-quick-and-work-20-minutes-a-day" VO books do - that everybody can do this thang called voicework, is leading many a sheep down the primrose path straight to the slaughterhouses.

I would prefer for someone to be bluntly honest about my product, rather than spout flowery words of sunshine and light without actually addressing the aspects of my delivery that need work.

And sometimes that means telling people that they have neither the chops nor the fortitude necessary to make a success of this business.

My personal experience with Mr Gilbert is that he has been overwhelmingly kind with is encouragement and absolutely free with his advice on how to tweak my delivery. He offers a fount of knowledge fortified by years of experience in the trenches, and his disdain for VO Coaches who will gladly pee on your leg and tell you that it's raining is quite refreshing. He has given me a few pointers ( I would love to get more, but I feel like I've allready bothered him too much as it is) that are helping me make my way into being competitive. I truly belive that with his pointers to guide me, when I get back in the trenches again in a few weeks, I will be able to make a sizable splash in my local market, and hopefully springboard into some national (or at least regional) stuff.

His marketing advice is also refreshingly blunt. It really doesn't matter how beautifully ornate your website and business cards are if no one of any import is going there. The only way to do that is drive them there. The only way to do that is through good old fashioned flesh pressing by making friends and doing favours. I've taken that advice to heart as well, and hope to start recouping some rewards from thos efforts soon.

At worst it means that I now have some new friends. And having friends is never a bad thing, even if they can't do a thing in the world for you.

I find that the terms negativity and realism are often used interchangably. They aren't the same and shouldn't be treated as such.


That isn't to say, Mr Campbell, that your initial post did not make some dang fine points. It is always important to know what you are capable of, and to never stop beliveing in yourself. But I think what JS was saying is that sometimes people thnk that they are someone thay aren't. Those are the ones who try and try and try and genuinely try to make it, but while they think they have the tools for the trade, they really don't. Sometimes the electronics repairguy needs to realise that he's really not cut out to do that kinda work when he really is better with a chisel and a blowtorch. If the equipment isn't right, then you need to go where that equipment is better suited - thus the banging your head against the wall comment.


I'm sorry of that sounded preachy: It is certainly not my intention to do that. I just get kinda caught up sometimes.

[Thomas C. Gass]

Bob, you need to buy a ticket first.

Success in the VO business - a lottery? Maybe, but I think I know what JS wanted to say:

I'm happy to say, that I can make my living out of that wonderful job, and I'm doing this since more than 20 years. I do have an education and a degree in Music and Performing Arts, I used to work on stage as actor for plays and musicals for many years before I decided to exchange stage for a microphone but even now I need to breathe theatre atmosphere from time to time. It was in my early theatre days, when I decided to make my first demo-reel (on c-cassettes ) and send it to all studios I could find in the telephone book (no internet then...). Slowly, the jobs started to drop in. I couldn't talk to my fellow actors about that, because VO work was looked upon as something, well, not "art" but "commercial" and way beyond something an "actor" would do to earn some extra money... By the way, we still don't have a German expression for a VO or voice-actor. We either use Sprecher (="speaker" , that's as if you would call any actor a "player"... ) or the english expressions.

What I've learnt in my early theatre years was, that I had plenty of possibilities to expand my skills, to learn during rehearsal time from directors, who learnt to "direct you", from fellow actors that had more experience than I had, from anybody else involved in the production. Everybody was interested in making the best out of the team. In VO business, this is completely different. Here, people want to harvest the fruit from what you've learned somewhere else. How many times do you really have a "director" in the studio, who guides you? How many jobs do you do alone in your booth, even at your home studio. You have to deliver - highest quality, and if you don't, you're out of this studio and the business.

So: learning, expanding your skills, getting better and better are tasks, that should be on top of your list. If you don't do this by yourself, nobody else will do it for you. And that's the main difference between theatre stage and recording studio.

So, "you need to buy a ticket first" for me means: you must learn, find a teacher, make a lot of recordings for yourself and listen to it, train your voice, diction, vocalise, take acting lessons and, and, and. VO business is not a lottery in a first instance, but a system based on "offer and demand". So, by learning you will get your ticket - for the lottery AND for being admitted to a wonderful profession.

Thomas